So Much For the Tolerant & Inclusive Gay Community

[Arcadianmemories]

You're right. There's belief among some in the gay community that bisexuals are really homosexuals who are afraid to commit to being homosexual.

why is this a "bias" and not a reflection of general reality?

[Milo]

why is this a "bias" and not a reflection of general reality?

Because bisexuals aren't homosexuals. They can be happy sexually and emotionally with either gender.

[Arcadianmemories]

Because bisexuals aren't homosexuals. They can be happy sexually and emotionally with either gender.

well, we can go back to Kinsey studies or any number or more contemporary studies and determine pretty easily that humans are to the 99th percentile all either practicing or potential bisexuals. I tend to agree with the assumption on the part of many gay men that active bisexuals are just hesitant or afraid to completely commit to one or the other lifestyle, or they are sluts looking for a cheap thrill.

[Milo]

well, we can go back to Kinsey studies or any number or more contemporary studies and determine pretty easily that humans are to the 99th percentile all either practicing or potential bisexuals.

Maybe so.

I tend to agree with the assumption on the part of many gay men that active bisexuals are just hesitant or afraid to completely commit to one or the other lifestyle, or they are sluts looking for a cheap thrill.

Here's a conundrum. The gay community continually extols the virtues of not denying one's "true self." So if one's "true self" needs love and sex from both genders, gays should accept that. Now, not all bisexuals need both, but could be happy with either. So gays should accept that some bisexuals will find themselves in an opposite-sex relationship. Why is the hetero aspect of a bisexual's life suspect?

[Arcadianmemories]

So if one's "true self" needs love and sex from both genders, gays should accept that

I don't accept that - I think that Brokeback Mtn story reflects the true reality of bisexuality -

Jack needed men for emotional fulfillment

Ennis was essentially a hetero

[Milo]

I don't accept that - I think that Brokeback Mtn story reflects the true reality of bisexuality -

I disagree that there is one "true" reality of bisexuality. Bisexuality means that you can find emotional and sexual fulfillment from either gender. Some bisexuals need both. Some bisexuals only need one at a time. Other bisexuals may only ever experience sex with one gender.

[bradINblue]

The happily married, family man hetro, gets drunk and had sex with another guy (known quite a few of these). Clinically, he is bisexual but many, especially agenda-driven groups, go way beyond clinical definitions.

Brad

[Milo]

The happily married, family man hetro, gets drunk and had sex with another guy (known quite a few of these). Clinically, he is bisexual but many, especially agenda-driven groups, go way beyond clinical definitions.

I don't call that bisexuality. I call that an accident  I mean seriously...if I got drunk and had sex with a woman, would anybody call me bisexual??

Beyond that, I'm convinced that its not about sex as much as it is about the emotional attachment. I could (and did) fuck women until the cows come home, but if I'm not capable of forming a emotional attachment (which I'm not) with them, I'm not really bisexual...and I'm definitely not heterosexual. I used to think I was bi, but I was basing that conclusion only on the fact that I was having sex with guys and girls. At the time, I wasn't considering emotional side of things.

[Arcadianmemories]

I disagree that there is one "true" reality of bisexuality. Bisexuality means that you can find emotional and sexual fulfillment from either gender. Some bisexuals need both. Some bisexuals only need one at a time. Other bisexuals may only ever experience sex with one gender.

ok, sure in a big wide universe there may be "some" which fit the criteria you established. but.....in the big wide imperfect universe there really are indeed verifiable patterns, and sometimes the "exceptions" do not disprove a rule. I think this is one of those cases where most people are going to fit the rule that they are either one or the other (hetero or homo) - in other words bisexuality is largely meaningless concept other than as a clinical statement. It appears that 99% of humans CAN relate sexually to both genders, but 99% of human DO NOT establish close emotional / sexual relationships with both genders. people try to pick what is most comfortable for them. back to the Brokeback analogy, Jack wanted to pick Ennis because even though techinically Jack was a "bisexual", in reality he wasnt, he was a gay man who wanted a close relationship with a man. Ennis on the other hand did not share all of Jack's feelings, and probably would have preferred relationships to women - and Jack only on the side - but no other men on the side.
 

[Arcadianmemories]

I don't call that bisexuality. I call that an accident  I mean seriously...if I got drunk and had sex with a woman, would anybody call me bisexual??

Beyond that, I'm convinced that its not about sex as much as it is about the emotional attachment. I could (and did) fuck women until the cows come home, but if I'm not capable of forming a emotional attachment (which I'm not) with them, I'm not really bisexual...and I'm definitely not heterosexual. I used to think I was bi, but I was basing that conclusion only on the fact that I was having sex with guys and girls. At the time, I wasn't considering emotional side of things.

ah, see - you have been and are honest with yourself. many so called bisexuals are not.

[Milo]

ah, see - you have been and are honest with yourself. many so called bisexuals are not.

There's the variable that throws the whole thing off. I can no sooner assume that a specific bisexual honestly and truly understands his attractions any more than you can assume that he is lying or is unaware. And if the gay community is going to include the "B" in LGBT then they should give these people the benefit of the doubt. What gets me is that they are willing to accept unquestioningly that a guy is truly, intrinsically effeminate or transgendered, but if you're masculine or bi, you're suspected of "acting." I see a double standard.

[Arcadianmemories]

There's the variable that throws the whole thing off. I can no sooner assume that a specific bisexual honestly and truly understands his attractions any more than you can assume that he is lying or is unaware. And if the gay community is going to include the "B" in LGBT then they should give these people the benefit of the doubt. What gets me is that they are willing to accept unquestioningly that a guy is truly, intrinsically effeminate or transgendered, but if you're masculine or bi, you're suspected of "acting." I see a double standard.

Milo, I didn't invent the silly acronym LGBT, and have no interest in it!  I have always maintained that gay men have UNIQUE interests which overlap very little on those of the GBT folks. Probably the worst political mistake made by gay men was the political alliance between the "orthodox urban gays" and the Lesbians and Transgendered.

[Milo]

Probably the worst political mistake made by gay men was the political alliance between the "orthodox urban gays" and the Lesbians and Transgendered.

BIG TIME!!!

And you're correct when you say that homosexual men have unique interests compared with the rest of the acronym. Likewise each of the other letters has their unique interests too. The Gay Party, and the various service organizations that exist in and around the community look very much like what has grown to serve the needs of the Latino community. What I mean by that is the Latino community is made up of a variety of nationalities, and people from different countries have different interests. Yet on many fronts, Latinos get smooshed together and the specific interests of, say Cubans, gets lost in the mix.

[Arcadianmemories]

BIG TIME!!!

And you're correct when you say that homosexual men have unique interests compared with the rest of the acronym. Likewise each of the other letters has their unique interests too. The Gay Party, and the various service organizations that exist in and around the community look very much like what has grown to serve the needs of the Latino community. What I mean by that is the Latino community is made up of a variety of nationalities, and people from different countries have different interests. Yet on many fronts, Latinos get smooshed together and the specific interests of, say Cubans, gets lost in the mix.

very true, you have made an effective comparison - and like the divergence of the interests of say the Cuban community, and the Mexican community - gay men's ideological interests based upon their economic reality is to the right of most Lesbians. and who can tell what ideology a transgendered person would be drawn to! 

[Milo]

very true, you have made an effective comparison - and like the divergence of the interests of say the Cuban community, and the Mexican community -

I'm glad to see that you recognize this. Many non-Latinos are unaware. I don't blame them, its just not on their radar.

My best friend (we've known each other since we were 11) used to own the spanish newspaper in Tampa. He was here in Philly a few years ago to attend a national conference of Latino chambers of commerce. David and I met up with him for drinks, and before we went to dinner, my buddy had assembled an entourage of another 10-12 latino business owners that he knew. The group was a mix of Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Venezuelans, and Domenicans. Needless to say, the group could not decide what they wanted to eat. So I suggested that we just head in the general direction of an area of Philly with lots of choices. When I pointed at El Vez--a Mexican restaurant--they were ready to have my head!!

Live & learn.

gay men's ideological interests based upon their economic reality is to the right of most Lesbians. and who can tell what ideology a transgendered person would be drawn to! 

This is the thing that gets me. Marketing pros will tell you that homosexual men have more expendable income than heterosexuals in general (I don't know about lesbians). This means that we have more investment income. You would think that would translate into a more fiscally conservative posture. It follows that such a posture would pull them to the right. As we know, social issues pull them to the left. I have often posted about priorities, and I think that on balance the gay community has been so concerned with taking care of its psyche in the form of "gaining acceptance," that they have become far less concerned about their wallets.