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injest
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I bring up the Catholic thing because some non-religious folk think it's child abuse to indoctrinate a child in a religion while they're young and don't have the analytical skills to know what is being done to them. Especially religions that have good and bad parts.
Obviously little children only get the sunny-side Jesus-loves-me stories and songs and are not taught about his father God the Father who ordered children, pregnant women and everyone else not his own slaughtered in his name, the mind control, the misogyny. But of course by the time children are old enough to discover this, it's too late, the indoctrination is done.
It's difficult to overcome this but people do.
there are no religions without good and bad parts, Del. |
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Artiste
artist extraordinaire
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If they are religion in the first place!!!
I do not consider islam a religion!
Do you?
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injest
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from the Christian Science Monitor: http://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-news-wires/2010/0627/Gay-pride-parade-in-San-Francisco-turns-40-thousands-to-march-todaySan Francisco's 40th annual gay pride weekend drew thousands to Civic Center Plaza, with even more expected Sunday for a parade, a Backstreet Boys concert and comments from U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Organizers kicked off the event Saturday in front of City Hall where thousands converged as vendors sold barbecue and burritos and DJs spun tunes on a large stage.
Advocates for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community shared booths alongside corporate sponsors.
"It's part political, it's part a party," said Darryl Groom, 55, explaining the elements that brought him and his partner, Tobey Tam, 41, to San Francisco from Cape Coral, Fla.
San Francisco's gay pride festivities have come a long way since the first parade in 1970, as has the LGBT movement, organizers and historians say.
The first pride parade had about 150 to 200 people, said Gerard Koskovich of the GLBT Historical Society.
"Barely anybody noticed," he said. "I've seen pictures of it."
The following year, there wasn't even a march, he said, just a gathering in Golden Gate Park.
Today, the march attracts tens of thousands of people, and a growing number of those are not in the LGBT community, Koskovich said.
"That homophobia that says, 'Eek, I'm not going to hang out with these people,' has turned into, 'Boy, these people throw a great party.'"
San Francisco Pride Executive Director Amy Andre said the fight for equal rights for lesbians, gays, bisexual and transgender people has also come a long way since the first pride celebration in 1970. At the time, gay sex was a crime in California.
This year, a prerecorded address will be delivered by Pelosi and The Backstreet Boys will perform.
Andre said this year's theme, "40 and Fabulous," is partly intended to celebrate the movement's progress.
"But we're also reflecting on the fact that we still have a long way to come for equal rights," Andre added.
sooo in 1970, there was not a problem, they were not harassed or assaulted...so 40 years later we have men having sex on the floats as they roll thru our streets. This is not progress. |
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injest
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http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2009/0611/p06s04-woap.html
Organizers of China's first gay pride week were struggling Thursday to find new venues for their events after police in Shanghai warned clubs and bars against joining the planned festival.
The crackdown came even as China's state-run English-language daily was hailing the celebration as "a good showcase of the country's social progress" and "an event of profound significance."
Police and commercial bureau officials warned a local restaurant of "very severe" consequences if it screened films as part of the festival, says an organizer who asked not to be identified. A photo studio called off a theater performance after a similar visit.
Gay activists said the official interference illustrated official Chinese policy toward homosexual gatherings: low-key events in private spaces are tolerated; public activities are banned.
"If you attract a lot of attention and media reports, the government will intervene," says Wan Yanhai, an AIDS activist in Beijing.
The two American women who organized Shanghai Pride week deliberately avoided scheduling any public events that would have required official permission, for fear of being banned. The festival of film, theater, literary readings, and panel discussions, however, has drawn considerable international media attention, even if the Chinese-language press in Shanghai has made no mention of the event. Most of the 500 or so people who have attended events so far have been foreigners.
There are thought to be around 35 million homosexuals in China, who face considerable discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere if they are courageous enough to come out. Homosexuality was a crime here until 1997, and classed as a mental disorder until 2001. Some government-funded medical institutes are still trying to find a "cure" for homosexuality.
Although gay websites, clubs, and tea rooms have sprung up in cities such as Beijing and Shanghai, there is still a taboo on gay culture in Chinese cinema and television. At the same time, adds Mr. Wan, "the traditional Chinese concept of the family is very conservative, and families put heavy pressure on gays to get married."
"Official attitudes have not changed at all," complains Cui Zi'en, a gay activist and film director. The general public, however, is growing more tolerant, he says, and young people are better informed than their parents about sexuality.
"We are still trying to make sense" of the police interference in Shanghai Pride, one of the organizers says. "But social and official attitudes will both continue to slowly and gradually embrace homosexuality in China. This is an irreversible tide."
makes me wonder if, considering how American media is so prevalent in the world, if people in these countries see what has been the result of acceptance of gay pride events. Maybe they don't want to let it get to the point of men performing sex acts in front of children on a public street. GREAT Job, gay activists!
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Milo
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Do you think if a Catholic priest exposed a boy of this age to his belief system and the boy had stood up for Catholic rights in school which caused him trouble, then had him ride in a religious parade, would that also be child abuse?
I mean, if we're going to discuss indoctrination of young children as a bad thing...
Its not the indoctrination that bugs me. All kinds of kids get some sort of indoctination all the time be it religious, political, social, or whatever. What bugs me is that this kid has clearly been exploited for political means. He has been thrust into the public eye with no understanding of the consequences. I`m not even sure his father gets it. And this vastly different from being a child actor. In those cases, there are laws, contracts, and union rules that define the circumstances of the child`s participation. I don`t care what the issue, or how just the cause. A 10 year old child is never the right political tool. |
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Artiste
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I praise this youth!
Any pics of he in that parade?
Au revoir,
hugs!
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delalluvia
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Actually I think they stuck to the Castro Street area and weren't heavily advertising and few people attended, and who can blame them? Back in the 1970's people were still getting fired, being harassed, losing custody of their kids because they were 'perverted' aka gay. Few people wanted to be 'out' and face the consequences. Is it progress? I think so. As to the taste of the parade participants....well, there's no accounting. |
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delalluvia
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Its not the indoctrination that bugs me. All kinds of kids get some sort of indoctination all the time be it religious, political, social, or whatever. What bugs me is that this kid has clearly been exploited for political means. Clearly? How so? He has been thrust into the public eye with no understanding of the consequences. I`m not even sure his father gets it. And this vastly different from being a child actor. In those cases, there are laws, contracts, and union rules that define the circumstances of the child`s participation. I'm not for certain, but I thought the kid spoke up on his own, not because his parents set him up to. |
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HerrKaiser
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So I wandered into the crowd watching the SF parade today, having taken a break from work.
I always have a sense of "fear" of what I might come up, and today held no punches for having assumed the worst. I came upon an obvious lesbian in clipped hair, manish clothes and striking imagine that the stereotype projects. She was not an abberation; thousands of her type along the way. But, she was with a child; a young boy about 5 or 6.
She had him dressed in a rainbow flag skirt. With sparkly girl shoes. And the lesbian was wrapping his neck with a feather boa.
there have only been a few moments I can recall in my life when extreme self control was necessary to restraint the urge to punch someone in the face. This miserable excuse for a human being to do that to an innocent child is a bad as any of the claims of abuse by the Church, day care centers, schools, or parents at large. She should have been arrested and sent to jail; no bond. She is an obvious danger to the well being of this young boy who is being horribly abused.
You know, one baby gets injured by a faulty crib and millions are recalled. The same should be enacted here; this boy's abuse should call for an end to so-called gay pride events and protect kids from this type of character-changing horror.
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injest
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So I wandered into the crowd watching the SF parade today, having taken a break from work.
I always have a sense of "fear" of what I might come up, and today held no punches for having assumed the worst. I came upon an obvious lesbian in clipped hair, manish clothes and striking imagine that the stereotype projects. She was not an abberation; thousands of her type along the way. But, she was with a child; a young boy about 5 or 6.
She had him dressed in a rainbow flag skirt. With sparkly girl shoes. And the lesbian was wrapping his neck with a feather boa.
there have only been a few moments I can recall in my life when extreme self control was necessary to restraint the urge to punch someone in the face. This miserable excuse for a human being to do that to an innocent child is a bad as any of the claims of abuse by the Church, day care centers, schools, or parents at large. She should have been arrested and sent to jail; no bond. She is an obvious danger to the well being of this young boy who is being horribly abused.
You know, one baby gets injured by a faulty crib and millions are recalled. The same should be enacted here; this boy's abuse should call for an end to so-called gay pride events and protect kids from this type of character-changing horror.
you know, it makes me think of that study we referenced earlier about kids raised by Lesbians as being MORE happy and 'well adjusted' then other kids. What criteria is used to judge happiness? The assault on boys, on masculinity, we have seen in the media these past three or four decades has resulted in an image of manhood that is far removed from the image of manhood that has held sway for all of human history. I posted this as a joke in Milo's thread but it pretty much says it like it is:  I suspect that 'happiness' in these studies is not based on what we would view as happiness to males of our generation or before. I feel so sorry for that child. He'll be another milksop whining about how the 'fakers' are being 'mean' to him...  |
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Arcadianmemories
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There is no "hitting bottom" with these liberals. They will stoop to any level necessary to get their point across.
And, yes, this is child abuse.
I am not sure that I see the kid in the parade as a problem. And now a big caveat. I am not particularly enthusiastic about "gay pride" parades, mostly because they seem rather "made up" - an attempt to tack a political agenda onto an identity. I am one who considers that the gay identity is indeed separate from the straight identity and is separate not only in sexual practices but in sensabilities and actual genetic biology. I think that the gay identity should be respected as a separate "ethnicity". However, it is seems way too early in the evolution of a sense of "gay" community or identity for anything like a "ethnic" celebration to have any authenticity. Unlike Cinco de Mayo, Juneteenth, or Chinese New Year parades - the Gay Pride parades seem a bit "tailor made" to a political agenda only. "Gay pride" reminds me a bit of Kwanzaa, also a made up holiday which also fits a political agenda. That caveat stated, I can't see the harm in the kid being involved in the parade. First, as I stated above, I don't consider the gay identity to be only or even mostly about sexual practices. The gay identity is an unique identity based upon an immutable characteristic. If the gay pride parades were SOLEY about sexual practices, then I would agree that minors shouldn't be involved. All of the objections I have read on this thread to the kid being in the parade revolve around 2 pts : - the reaction of homophobes - the politics of the action - in the sense that the kid is being used to further a political agenda. a) children must be protected by their guardians from danger, but that doesn't mean that guardians should hermetically seal them off from the real world. homophobia like racism is existential - can't wish it away, or pray it away, or hope it away. we just have to live our lives and be grateful that we live in a nation that is founded on civil discourse and constitutional law. b) kids being used in a political action is bad? oh, I am not entirely sure about that. children have been used in every possible opportunity to further a cause of some sort or the other. some of my happiest childhood memories were riding in a parade with my dad in his convertible down main street at fair time back in 1964. Daddy had decorated his car with Barry Goldwater signs and I had a bag of candy that I was throwing to the kids along the streets. (The Johnson campaign had hired brass band, and they were loud, but I looked cute in the convertible!) So, I was used too! And in 1964 Repubs weren't as popular in TX as they are now, by any means!  |
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Artiste
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May I ask again any pics of him in parade?
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Milo
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Clearly? How so?
I'm not for certain, but I thought the kid spoke up on his own, not because his parents set him up to.
We may never for certain whether his parents put him up to this or not. Maybe they didn't...this time. I'd be willing to bet money that the Pledge of Allegiance stunt a couple years ago was staged by adults, and my suspicions are that this is too. How do we know the parade organizers didn't invite him, and he just said "yes" without having thought about it before the invitation? After all, the article states that the parade organizers "selected" him...not the other way around. |
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Milo
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I am not particularly enthusiastic about "gay pride" parades, mostly because they seem rather "made up" - an attempt to tack a political agenda onto an identity. I am one who considers that the gay identity is indeed separate from the straight identity and is separate not only in sexual practices but in sensabilities and actual genetic biology. I think that the gay identity should be respected as a separate "ethnicity".
You and I have danced this pas de deux before, so you know I disagree. I still like you. I still respect you. You still have a gazillion wonderful and valuable things to say on a whole host of issues. Regardless, a Pride parade is no place for a minor. No its not ALL about sex, but there is often enough sexual content to make it inappropriate. a) children must be protected by their guardians from danger, but that doesn't mean that guardians should hermetically seal them off from the real world. homophobia like racism is existential - can't wish it away, or pray it away, or hope it away. we just have to live our lives and be grateful that we live in a nation that is founded on civil discourse and constitutional law.
Protection, yes. Parents cannot protect their children from all dangers, and I would say that where there is a reasonable risk, they should let those dangers into a child's life and teach them how to handle them. Falling off a bike is an example of a reasonable risk. My own mother took a reasonable risk sending my brothers and me to school in a lilly-white suburb of Boston. She knew that there would be some kid, some day that would hate on one of us. That was a reasonable risk, because for the most part, you could trust upper class whites and jews to have a modicum of tolerance. If, however, she had sent us to school in lilly-white South Boston she could expect us to be teased, bullied, and beaten almost every day. That would be an unreasonable risk because poor and working class urban Irish folks had shown their distaste for blacks repeatedly. No way in hell my mother would have done that to us. It would be one thing for Will's parents to take him to the parade, and let the jeers fall where they may. Its a whole different level of homophobia he faces when they put him up as Grand Marshall. Now you open the kid up to organized homophobes taking pot shots at him, negative media exposure, and possibly even death threats against him and his family. That is NOT a reasonable risk. Even if this was not the parents' idea, but rather a matter of Will being invited, the parents should have said "no." And no, I don't care if that's what Will "really wants to do." He's too young, and parents need to set boundaries. b) kids being used in a political action is bad? oh, I am not entirely sure about that. children have been used in every possible opportunity to further a cause of some sort or the other. some of my happiest childhood memories were riding in a parade with my dad in his convertible down main street at fair time back in 1964. Daddy had decorated his car with Barry Goldwater signs and I had a bag of candy that I was throwing to the kids along the streets. (The Johnson campaign had hired brass band, and they were loud, but I looked cute in the convertible!) So, I was used too! And in 1964 Repubs weren't as popular in TX as they are now, by any means! There is a difference between kissing a baby, and putting a kid out there as a figure head or spokesperson. |
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