candid conversation

[Arcadianmemories]

Lets have a candid on-going conversation over the next months about the loss election night.

I candidly am getting sick of hearing the excuse making over the past week or so.

let me share a few of the complaints I have heard being bandied about in the Conservative blogosphere about the failure of the Republicans and their ticket this fall:

1) Romney wasn't conservative enough to win

2) Romney wasn't moderate enough to win

3) Paul Ryan was the wrong Veep nominee, it should have been Rubio

4) Republicans didn't market correctly (this one has me laughing)

5) Romney should have hit back at Obama on the Benghazi thing much harder

6) Obama stole the election thru corrupted ballot machines programs by a Soros outlet

7) a corrupt partisan media gave the election to Obama

lastly - 50% of the nation is brainwashed and poorly educated


I think that we need to acknowledge that we must have a candid conversation among ourselves, with everything on the table, about the future of this country and our roles in it.

Clearly, almost no one was expecting an Obama win (I think  Dick Morris forcast 320 electoral votes for Romney, I agreed with him - wow! were we wrong).

Looking at the raw totals, it is clear that turnout was down for both candidates, and had as many voters voted for Romney as voted for the lukewarm McCain, Romney would be President. How could we be so mistaken about the turnout of conservative voters, when most of us were so fired up this year?

So, what happened? Why aren't a majority of the voters buying our product our "soup" on the shelf - so to speak?

a) do we need to package the soup differently?

b) do we need to put the soup in a different can and on a different shelf?

What is clear, is that a majority the voters (customers) are not buying our soup, additionally a majority of the eligible voters aren't buying their soup or ours.

My own thoughts are  --- the people who are voting democrat and those just not voting are not voting or voting out of ignorance or brainwashing, they are voting or not voting out of self interest. I don't subscribe to the theory that the voters are hopelessly brainwashed and ignorant. Obviously, the decisions made election day stuck in my craw and made me very sad. But we need to fully understand why so many voters made a decision that seems like madness to most conservatives.

your thoughts please ............................

[injest]

I bought a eight grade history textbook from California...there in lies the problem I think. We have allowed Progressives to take over the school and as a result we have more than one generation of people firmly believing in entitlements and 'equality' in the form of force rather than merit.

[MagicM]

Other theories put forward include:

- the fact that Romney allowed himself to be defined by the Dems in a series of hard-hitting negative ads aired early on in the piece and did nothing to rebut that image

- that Romney coasted after that first debate

- people just were too fearful of change - when you are scared, as people are now, you tend to freeze up and do nothing

- Minorities were determined that the first black president would not be a one-termer

All these factors had an impact IMO.

Republican fiscal credentials have also been damaged by Bush's big spending record leading up to the 2008 crash and the voters'  equation of business with Wall Street rather than small business thus marking down the Repubs as the party of big business.

 

PS We have a catastrophically inept and corrupt Labor government in Oz which we fear will copy the Dem's winning tactics in the upcoming election here - especially the demonisation of the opposition which has started early just as it did over there.

[injest]

it goes way beyond party politics, IMO. We have a serious problem in this country with a definite and distinct split in the national mentality. I don't see how we can ever reconcile the two.

One the one hand, you have people that believe in hard work and responsibility. People with the traditional pride in accomplishment and desire to build..on the other you have people that feel life owes them something and hard work is for other people...people with pride in existence and no desire to improve their lives at all.

Simple truth is that we have reached a tipping point where there are too many people that take for the ones that make to sustain.

We have generations being taught by Progressives, of course they will vote Progressive. Look at the Occupy Wall Street crowd versus the Tea Party. The two will never find a common ground. September 11 killed the US, we are just in the death throes.

I vote secession, we need to break up the country and let the coasts burn themselves up. We in the middle have no voice, we have no representation nor do we have anything in common with them. I am sick of the Progressives on both coasts setting our agendas. They hate us as much as we hate them. Let it go.

[Milo]

Here's what I think:

- Voter turnout was dismal for both parties. 93 million eligible voters voted with their asses. That's more people than voted for either Obama or Romney. That tells me that Americans are sick and tired of the the choices they were offered.

- This was not a big loss. CNN has the popular vote split 51% to 48%. Yes, the Dems won the race, but this is far from being a mandate.

- I was shocked to see that only 93% of blacks voted for Obama. That shows a serious erosion minority support for the Dems that Republicans would do well to attempt to leverage.

- As usual, the Dems seem to be masters of emotional manipulation. Like it or not (which I don't), emotional arguments win points with voters. I agree with Jess regarding the influence Progressives have had over the mind-set of Americans. They have groomed generations to reject anything that doesn't feel "fair," and "fairness" is synonymous with getting stuff from the government. Perhaps Republicans should focus on winning hearts next time around rather than spending so much time trying to make sense.

- Romney did lack some clarity on certain issues. There were a few items that I found on his website that I never heard in any of the ads or debates. I don't know how much it would have helped him, but I think his overall affect was a bit wishy-washy.

[injest]

Romney was a wishy washy Progressive chosen by the New England Progressives in the Republican party...seriously do you really believe Progressives haven't infiltrated them too? the Democrats are just more openly whorish that way...anything to keep themselves in power..BOTH parties.

You can call it 'emotional' reasoning if you want to. I call it a total collapse of the common morality brought on by our willingness to be 'tolerant' of other people.

Observe at DC how they actually have spun the Occupy Wall Street, with it's rape protection tents and photos of people defecating in the street, into a wonderful thing. Observe any holiday where people that don't even live in a state can come in and force a community to remove their traditional displays. We are learning too late that tolerance only goes one way. It's not enough to 'tolerate' diversity, we must abandon our own beliefs in exchange for servility to theirs.

as I said, there is no common ground anymore.

[Milo]

You can call it 'emotional' reasoning if you want to. I call it a total collapse of the common morality brought on by our willingness to be 'tolerant' of other people.

Observe at DC how they actually have spun the Occupy Wall Street, with it's rape protection tents and photos of people defecating in the street, into a wonderful thing. Observe any holiday where people that don't even live in a state can come in and force a community to remove their traditional displays. We are learning too late that tolerance only goes one way. It's not enough to 'tolerate' diversity, we must abandon our own beliefs in exchange for servility to theirs.

as I said, there is no common ground anymore.

What you're describing is cultural Marxism. The common morality that you mention is a foundation that allows capitalism to flourish, and helps to keep the influence of the state in check. Theoretically, cultural Marxism says that breaking down that common morality will lead to increased control by the state, and a breakdown of capitalism. Well, from what we've seen so far, corporate America has figured out a way to keep the consumer dollars flowing, but we are certainly getting our share of greater control by the state.

[MagicM]

They have groomed generations to reject anything that doesn't feel "fair," and "fairness" is synonymous with getting stuff from the government.

Bingo Milo.

The fairness theme is trotted out endlessly by our Labor Party. It is code for a great levelling sameness.

It is no coincidence that their new industrial relations legislation giving unions the whip hand is called The Fair Work Act. Fair to whom?

They have distorted the national credo of "a fair go" to "no go".

[Milo]

They have groomed generations to reject anything that doesn't feel "fair," and "fairness" is synonymous with getting stuff from the government.

Bingo Milo.

The fairness theme is trotted out endlessly by our Labor Party. It is code for a great levelling sameness.

It is no coincidence that their new industrial relations legislation giving unions the whip hand is called The Fair Work Act. Fair to whom?

They have distorted the national credo of "a fair go" to "no go".

Naturally. Marxism call for, as you put it, a great leveling sameness. We see this attribute in the redistribution of wealth that is coming from Obama, and being demanded by the Occupy Movement. We see it in the form of "equality." We see it in the form of corporate globalization. We see it in the "tolerance" creed. We see it in same-sex marriage. We see it in the immigration conversation.

Now, getting back to Bill's original question about what Republicans need to do to take back the helm of political discourse, I think you bring up a great example of how the left has been using emotions as a tiller. You mention the Fair Work Act in your country. The words themselves have a direct emotional appeal that no sane person would argue with. Yet, it doesn't matter what the details of the legislation are because if your are against any of it, you are not in favor of being "fair."

There has to be a way for conservatives to invoke the emotional tags that get people to react positively to our language so that we are steering the national conversation, and putting liberals on the defensive.

[injest]

in other words, join the Progressives in lying and redefining words so up is down and down is up...no thanks, I don't want to live in nor contribute to Orwellian Newspeak.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche

what Republicans need to do is stop trying to out lie the Progressives and fight them at home. Stop allowing the Progressives to run the schools. Go to local school board meetings and demand to see cirriculum, stop going to movies and supporting TV networks that denigrate their ideals and beliefs and icons. Provide alternatives to the forcefed plablum that the Progressives push..STOP being so DAMNED TOLERANT. Isolate and shun people in your own circle that promote the filth that Progressives spread. Show your children you stand for what you believe and stop trying to be politically correct. Support companies and TV shows and movies that promote your ideals.

live what you believe.

[Artiste]

Merci Arcadian!

   Lets have a candid on-going conversation over the next months about the loss election night.
   

- that is good your request!

Will you see mine too and reply?

Heer is one: Can you find out how many millions of illegal immigrants in the USA voted for Obama?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Merci Injess!

  live what you believe.

   

May I says thanks to that!

And too many are afraid of Obama, so they voted for him to get him re-lected?

Dare I ask?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Milo]

in other words, join the Progressives in lying and redefining words so up is down and down is up...no thanks, I don't want to live in nor contribute to Orwellian Newspeak.

That's not what I'm advocating. What I'm talking about is more along the lines of what Ron Paul (among others) talks about when he calls the financial crisis a moral issue. If we can cast ballooning deficits, out-of-control government spending, and increased taxes as moral issues with emotional "consequences," we can more effectively combat the power that the left's social issues have over the voting public. I don't think we need to lie to get that done. The way I see it, there are people out there voting Democrat who think these fiscal issues are just as heinous as you or I do. The difference is that their votes are swayed by the emotional impact of the left's position on the social issues.  

what Republicans need to do is stop trying to out lie the Progressives and fight them at home. Stop allowing the Progressives to run the schools. Go to local school board meetings and demand to see cirriculum, stop going to movies and supporting TV networks that denigrate their ideals and beliefs and icons. Provide alternatives to the forcefed plablum that the Progressives push..STOP being so DAMNED TOLERANT. Isolate and shun people in your own circle that promote the filth that Progressives spread. Show your children you stand for what you believe and stop trying to be politically correct. Support companies and TV shows and movies that promote your ideals.

live what you believe.

I agree with all of that. Going back to Ron Paul, he says in his farewell speech:

"The Founders warned that a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people.  The current crisis reflects that their concerns were justified...

...our individual goal in life ought to be for us to seek virtue and excellence and recognize that self-esteem and happiness only comes from using one’s natural ability, in the most productive manner possible, according to one’s own talents.

Productivity and creativity are the true source of personal satisfaction. Freedom, and not dependency, provides the environment needed to achieve these goals. Government cannot do this for us; it only gets in the way."

Unfortunately, for too many, morality has been inverted. Rather than virtue coming from within, they seek to opt into an external virtue by saying, doing, and thinking whatever is popular at the time. This makes them psychologically dependent on the government, the media, and corporations.

[Artiste]

Milo and others:

Too many Americans borns and others being decent citizens are afraid to speak as in Hilter times now in 2013 or don't care less?

I posted many things wrong as news in the USA and not many even on Retreat answered: most times none; it was worst on Bettermost as criminals took took over and too few members protected human and civil rights, etc., like I did.!

I know post Why such are waiting for us Canada to file complaints, as isn't Federal, provincials, and cities governments here to protect our Freedom instead of kissing criminals passing as religion? - as female refused service in Toronto because that bussiness is all muslim workers, but any Americans here will comment on that?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[injest]

That's not what I'm advocating. What I'm talking about is more along the lines of what Ron Paul (among others) talks about when he calls the financial crisis a moral issue. If we can cast ballooning deficits, out-of-control government spending, and increased taxes as moral issues with emotional "consequences," we can more effectively combat the power that the left's social issues have over the voting public. I don't think we need to lie to get that done. The way I see it, there are people out there voting Democrat who think these fiscal issues are just as heinous as you or I do. The difference is that their votes are swayed by the emotional impact of the left's position on the social issues.  

I agree with all of that. Going back to Ron Paul, he says in his farewell speech:

"The Founders warned that a free society depends on a virtuous and moral people.  The current crisis reflects that their concerns were justified...

...our individual goal in life ought to be for us to seek virtue and excellence and recognize that self-esteem and happiness only comes from using one’s natural ability, in the most productive manner possible, according to one’s own talents.

Productivity and creativity are the true source of personal satisfaction. Freedom, and not dependency, provides the environment needed to achieve these goals. Government cannot do this for us; it only gets in the way."

Unfortunately, for too many, morality has been inverted. Rather than virtue coming from within, they seek to opt into an external virtue by saying, doing, and thinking whatever is popular at the time. This makes them psychologically dependent on the government, the media, and corporations.

they encourage people to take the easy way out...rather than encourage them put in the work for a trophy, GIVE it to them; rather than make them use their talents (and contrary to popular belief, EVERYONE has something they can do) to advance their lifestyle, the Progressives give them the reward first. Why work if you can get the same thing for free?

Progressives live in this fantasy world where they believe if they just push hard enough, we'll all be living in Star Trek, where all our creature comforts will appear like magic from apparatus in the walls and everyone will devote their time and energy to inventions and art and science...if only the mundane, tedious work would be removed so people wouldn't have to devote time and energy to making a living then they believe people would do exactly that..

but it doesn't work that way...we aren't living in Star Trek, we are living here and now and although we don't have magical food dispensers on our walls, many have 'magical' cards in their wallets that provide *FREE* food and life's necessities, housing, utilities, ObamaPHONE!s rain down on them from nowhere...of course WE understand it's not REALLY free and it does come from somewhere, the point is they are free from the necessity of making a living..just like in Star Trek..but do they spend their time developing their natural talents? of course not! there are no great symphonies being written over on the south side of Longview...there are no great American novels, no great philosophies, no scientific discoveries...no, they spend their days procreating and watching TV, cruising the net for porn, playing video games, hanging out in the streets, abusing drugs...it is a complete and utter waste of human potential. Drive thru any middle class neighborhood and drive thru any poor neighborhood, regardless of race...does it require money to pick the trash up off your yard? no. does a family with parents working 40 hours a week have more time to clean up their area? of course not! so why is it (and this is rhetorical we here all KNOW why it is!) that the poor areas are going to have filth while the middle class is clean? and it isn't a race issue, there are middle class families from all races and poor families from all races.

it's the Progressive mindset and I don't know how you override it.

and it's so blistering SAD to me that entire generations of people are growing up, NEVER having known the pride of actually earning something. They will never feel the pride of walking up to the front of their peers to recieve something they fought for. This equality the Progressives tout is simply the equality of mediocrity.

"I'd rather have one year of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special"